Ian Sturrock Interview

By on 28 June 2016
Dragon Warriors Serpent King Games

As a last ‘Huzzah!’ I’d like to welcome one of my favourite designers, and the custodian of one of my favourite RPGs, Dragon Warriors, resting comfortable with Serpent King Games. Please welcome to the site Ian Sturrock!


JONATHAN HICKS: Welcome. Perhaps you’d like to tell us a little bit about yourself?

IAN STURROCK: I’m an aging anarchist punk, academic, and geek, not necessarily in that order. I teach game studies and game design at the University of Hertfordshire, which is fulfilling and fun but hard work, and I’m doing a PhD in games and motivation at Glyndwr University. I attempt to find the time to run Serpent King Games, too, but it’s almost impossible for me to devote much attention to it till the PhD is in the bag (hopefully early 2017).

JH: Tell us about your RPG history – you’ve got quite a list of achievements, including the Warhammer, Conan and Slaine RPGs. What got you into the wonderful world of tabletop roleplaying, and how did you get to work on such great IPs?

IS: Growing up in Britain in the 70s and 80s, I had three main influences that drew me inexorably towards RPGs: Star Wars, Tolkien, and 2000AD. I think it was the latter that meant my first choice of game, in 1982, was the boxed set of TSR’s Gamma World. I’d been going in to the Games of Liverpool shop (then a major distributor and importer of hobby games in the UK, soon to be eclipsed by Games Workshop) for a year or so, but patiently waited till my 12th birthday before picking up the “12 and up” Gamma World. The staff tried to persuade me to look at Traveller or D&D instead, but I read and re-read that back cover, and decided that anything with mutants and rad-wastes was the game for me.

You have to bear in mind that as kids of the Cold War, my friends and I had expected annihilation at any time; I can remember conversations with schoolmates in primary school in the late 70s about the Three Minute Warning that was supposed to go off once Russian missile launches had been detected, giving us just enough time to get to a shelter (we were pretty sure there weren’t any), or, more appealingly, go and punch a hated teacher or something, which was the consensus as to what we would actually do. Then we realised there were probably no warning klaxons in the school, so we figured the first we would know of our impending destruction would be a brief bright flash in the sky, an instant before we were vaporised.

Anyway… I read that book cover to cover, and ran a game or two for my sister and some schoolmates, but found that once I started running D&D / AD&D, I had more interest from people. Soon I was playing those ridiculous teenage D&D games everyone plays — 26th level Anti-Paladins and maxed-out evil Elf Fighter/Magic-Users and so forth. We all devoured and swapped the Fighting Fantasy Gamebooks in school lunchtimes too. It was a natural progression from those, and D&D, and reading White Dwarf, to Dragon Warriors. I wrote a pretty long blog post about that here, so I will try to avoid repetition and just link to it: http://serpentking.com/?p=53

My lucky break to actually get working in the RPG business came by being a relatively early (late 90s) adopter of the internet. I managed to impress James Wallis, then running Hogshead Publishing, sufficiently that he gave me a part-time job in the company’s tiny Clapham office. I very much enjoyed working for James, and it’s testament to how fantastic a person he is that we remain good friends and occasional collaborators fifteen years on. We most recently worked together on a chapter on Games Workshop and Warhammer 40,000, as part of an edited academic collection on wargaming, Zones of Control (MIT Press, 2016).

Via the Hogshead job, I made contact with Mongoose Publishing, then no more than an idea in the minds of the very young-looking Matthew Sprange and Alex Fennell, for a book called Slayer’s Guide to Hobgoblins. A few months later they were expanding and looking for writers. I submitted the Slayer’s Guide to Medusas as a writing project, and they liked it sufficiently well not just to publish it, but to give me a full-time writing and game design job.

Mongoose was expanding rapidly at the time, and I guess due to my lifelong love of Slaine — the day that first story came out in 2000AD in the 80s, I read it and immediately got to work on a “Celtic Warrior” character class for my AD&D campaign — I ended up as “the guy who does the barbarian games.” Which got me the chance to write Slaine, and then Conan.

Working with Mongoose was a bit of a mixed blessing. The workload was immense, with an expectation that we could write a bare minimum of 80 to 120,000 words of publishable RPG material per month — including doing any playtesting, and squeezing in convention demos, the odd editing task, etc. Pretty much every writer I knew in that position burned out after a year or two, me included. On the upside, it meant I got a load of work out there with my name on it, and it was good enough that I won several awards for it over that first year.

JH: What is it about the tabletop RPG hobby that attracts you? What do you enjoy most when playing a game?

IS: For me, the characters seem to come alive more than just about any other medium. I love larp, and videogames, and I enjoy watching plays and films, and reading books. All those media can have memorable, rounded characters, but there’s something about tabletop RPG that, for me at least, makes the characters more real. I’d love to do some theorising about what the mysterious factor is, that’s somehow different. But it’s there.

JH: What’s your favourite game? What games that are out there at the moment float your boat?

IS: It’s tough to pick one favourite, but I think I’d go with Amber Diceless. I love the Amber books. The game, though it doesn’t quite capture the details perfectly, does capture the sorcery-enhanced, duelling, assassinating, family realpolitik of them. With the right group, you can run a game with 8 or 10 players, that ranges from intrigue-laden banquets to world-shattering battles to relaxed time spent at home in one’s private dimension. The players don’t get bogged down in stats and suchlike, because after an adventure or two, they don’t quite know what their stats are any more.

The most recent release that got me really excited was Hillfolk/Dramasystem, a couple of years back. I ran some Iain M. Banks-inspired games at Worldcon 2014 using it, because his Culture novels seem to focus on character interactions so much despite the space opera setting, so it seemed a natural fit.

Inevitably I keep coming back to Dragon Warriors too. I ran a short campaign of the original adventures for some work colleagues last year.

JH: Do you still get time to play? What are you playing at the moment?

IS: Very occasionally! I ran a game of The Princes’ Kingdom recently for my partner and her two kids, and played in a Star Wars game run by another friend earlier this year, but I don’t have a regular gaming group right now. I have a few interested friends, though, and I plan to run some Dramasystem games over summer for them.

JH: The tabletop roleplaying hobby has been through a lot changes over the years and it seems that its death-knell is always sounded when newer hobbies come along, such as collectible card games and online computer games. It still seems to be able to hold it’s own, though – what do you see happening to the hobby in the future? What changes, if any, do you think will have to be made to ensure its survival?

IS: It will do fine, as a hobby. There will always be a few people who loved the dungeon-bash aspects of D&D more than the roleplaying aspects, and those people will find their gaming needs served better in videogames, or the better dungeon-bash boardgames, than in TTRPGs. People who love both will still enjoy Dragon Warriors or D&D or similar. Then, partly through the maturation of the hobby, and the recognition of it as an art form, and partly through the massive expansion of genres and systems away from those old school approaches, more people will try it out — people with a background in traditional art or drama, or newer geek interests like cosplay and anime, rather than wargames and comics. That’s not, incidentally, a suggestion that art and drama are superior to wargames and comics. Check out Junot Diaz’s podcast for MIT’s Comparative Media Program for an insight into why, in some ways, geeky art forms are better at answering the big questions of the 20th and 21st centuries than more traditional art forms.

I think the biggest changes we’re seeing right now, maybe 15 years after the Indie Games movement began to take off, come from three places:

1) The aforementioned indie games, which gave designers permission to get rid of complex systems (something Dragon Warriors did in the 80s, admittedly!) and really focus in on the core activity of the game or genre.

2) Changes in gamer demographics, so that there are now a load of teenage players plus their parents’ generation doing a lot of the TTRPG gaming. Neither of those groups, for the most part, wants to spend hours hundreds of hours mastering complex game systems, particularly if they’re only playing rather than GMing. The teenagers are used to computer games, which they learn by playing, not by reading the manuals (not that there even are any manuals). Middle-aged players don’t have as much time to do system mastery or preparation as they did as teens or students. So for both groups, you want super-simple character generation — no more spending a full 3-hour session just figuring out a bunch of numbers. Let people pick an archetype, hand them a character sheet (or better, a card) with their core stats on, and get them playing.

3) The market has fragmented again, after a brief convergence on d20. That means there’s not so many fortunes to be made in the industry. You can still pay the mortgage or the rent if you work hard, hit deadlines, get on with people, and produce high quality work, but a large number of publishers and writers in the industry will be treating their work somewhere between a low-paid part-time job and an occasionally paid hobby. The boundary between fan and professional is as blurred as it ever was, and that’s really not such a bad thing. One of the biggest strengths of the hobby has always been fan creation and fan labour. There are some incredibly talented fans and semi-professionals out there, doing amazing work. I’m one of them, these days, because my day job pays the rent.

JH: Out of all your projects, what are you most proud of?

IS: I have to pick one?!? I’m a very proud kind of person, you know!

I think right now, it’s probably the academic analysis of romance in tabletop roleplaying games, with a particular focus on Pendragon, which is a chapter in the Game Love Reader from Routledge, edited by Enevold and MacCallum-Stewart. I’m not wholly satisfied with any of my d20 games, because they were all sufficiently constrained by the system and by publisher expectations. I mean, Slaine and Conan are both great d20 games, and I’m very proud of how well I tweaked d20 to directly reflect the source material. In the UK, I keep getting people telling me how much they still love Slaine, especially, and that absolutely makes me proud. But, I can remember picking up Ron Edwards’s _Sorcerer and Sword_ as research when I was writing the Conan game, and wishing I had the freedom to junk some of the d20 legacy stuff and make something simple and action-focused.

And I love all the work I did (originally for James Wallis’s Magnum Opus Press) for the Dragon Warriors relaunch, because DW is still my favourite TTRPG for bashing dungeons and a bit more. But I’d love to do a proper 2nd edition (Huzzah! – Jon), that retains the simplicity of the original but offers a bit more player choice. It’s just a bit dull that most combats boil down to “stand there and roll to hit, roll for armour penetration, repeat”. I’d love a combat system more like that of the lovely, streamlined, fluid, yet tactical and choice-heavy. The One Ring. And for a lot of the things like wilderness travel, environmental hazards, traps, exploration, etc., it would be great to incorporate the kind of ideas that Ken Hite and Robin Laws riff on in their KARTAS podcast, so that again the focus is on choice and storytelling rather than a series of random rolls. So again, DW falls slightly short of perfection in my eyes, largely due to the core system being 30 years old. We’ve seen a lot of new ideas in game design over that time. I’m seriously proud of the rejig of the Prince of Darkness campaign, though, for the relaunch.

JH: What are you working on at the moment?

IS: Mostly my PhD, and teaching, and research. You can find out a bit more about my research here: http://researchprofiles.herts.ac.uk/portal/en/persons/ian-sturrock(9d9f8842-62e6-48b0-958e-430f61c61f2a).html , and the teaching I do is all on the world-renowned Animation course at University of Hertfordshire, which I can recommend to anyone wanting to learn games art, animation, concept art, or VFX: http://uhanimation.co.uk/

Someday I will get together with the other Serpent King people and make that Dragon Warriors 2nd edition, but it’s a big job and we’d be keen to ensure all the 1st edition material remained compatible.

(Huzzah! – Jon)

About Jonathan Hicks

Jonathan Hicks has been gaming for thirty years and has covered almost every type of genre, system and setting. He also runs the RPG website Farsight Blogger and created the SKETCH system for Farsight Games.

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  1. Pingback: UK OSR Update June 2016 | Sorcerer Under Mountain

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