Could you 'Kickstart' a Convention?

[Darran]

My guess is that you couldn't use Kickstarter anyway as it is only open to USA citizens.

[dr_mitch]

Thankfully Dr Mitch has lit the Con GM issue fire elsewhere.

Well, this thread got me wondering about this issue.

Back on topic- I quite like the idea of 'Kickstarting' a Convention this way. The one thing that troubles me a little is what people get for different pledges. I quite like the idea of pledging extra to get a con book (a con T-shirt is another possibility, but T-shirts aren't a feature of my personal fashion sense). A higher pledge level to (say) pre-book one game slot in a two day con is fine by me, but bigger priveleges than that within the games for con-goers who paid more might irritate me.

I'm speaking here purely as a punter. The idea of being involved with organising a con both daunts and intrigues me (though more the former than the latter). Maximum kudos to those who do it.

[dr_mitch]

My guess is that you couldn't use Kickstarter anyway as it is only open to USA citizens.

True, dat. There's always indiegogo, which has a similar function. I guess 'to Kickstart' has become the generic verb for that sort of thing.

[catty_big]

My guess is that you couldn't use Kickstarter anyway as it is only open to USA citizens.

True, dat. There's always indiegogo, which has a similar function. I guess 'to Kickstart' has become the generic verb for that sort of thing.

That's true. The fact that to use Kickstarter you have to have a US social sec no. really annoys me. However, Indiegogo is rapidly becoming a powerful rival to KS, especialy for indie projects. But to answer the OP, I think it's an an absolutely brilliant idea Neil (keep those ideas coming!), and I'm frankly amazed that no-one's thought of it before. Someone should definitely do it, even if it's a small-to-medium con like PubCon or ConDamned. Ok the last two have had free venue use up to now but for a mini con in general that's by no means guaranteed. As for the GM issue, I don't honestly think it would be a problem. It might if one was trying to organise a con the size of IndieCon or Conception, but it's unlikely anyone would, and anyway both of the aforementioned cons started small.

Re crowd-funded projects in general, both KS and 'Gogo support an extremely wide range of projects, often community-based, including events of one sort or another that don't really have a specific goal other than to raise awareness of a charity or some important issue, so the jump to cons, albeit that they are commercial (and they have to be, because of the venue hire and recompensing the organisers for their time and the enormous amount of effort they put in) is not a big one.

I very much look forward to someone taking this particular ball and running with it. Well done Neil for firing the starting gun.

[NimbyDagda]

However, Indiegogo is rapidly becoming a powerful rival to KS, especialy for indie projects.

Bit off topic but Kickstarter copied Indiegogo, not the other way round.

On topic, yes there is no reason this wouldn't work, and it would actually be an interesting way to get some really special cons in cool but expensive locations put together.

[3Jane]

Like CastleCon - with Pendragon games only!

[catty_big]

However, Indiegogo is rapidly becoming a powerful rival to KS, especialy for indie projects.

Bit off topic but Kickstarter copied Indiegogo, not the other way round.

Ah, interesting, didn't know that.

However, Indiegogo is rapidly becoming a powerful rival to KS, especialy for indie projects.

On topic, yes there is no reason this wouldn't work, and it would actually be an interesting way to get some really special cons in cool but expensive locations put together.

I recall you saying a while back that there should be an Oxford con. I think that would be a goer as it's reasonably central. There could even be a kind of Iron GM challenge to make the best game about Oxford during the con.

[w00hoo]

On topic, yes there is no reason this wouldn't work, and it would actually be an interesting way to get some really special cons in cool but expensive locations put together.

The method would definitely be a good way to set up Con's for the groups that are caught in the 'venues are too expensive here so we'll need lots of people to come' cycle which I know has been mooted as the reason for some smaller London based stuff not happening.

[thenovalord]

oxford con i would like

far away enuff to be excitin trip, not to far to be a right pain!!

is there a soul brave enuff to attempt this!!

[Neil Gow]

Its certainly got my juices flowing about a project I've been considering for a couple of months.

There's definitely some wrinkles to sort out re: pledge levels and stretch targets, and some clear communication required on the aims and objectives of the event and the funding BUT it certainly makes the entire affair far more financially viable.

[pedr]

I think if it were timed right, this could reduce the financial risk of organising a medium-sized convention. Obviously the devil is in the details - and the recognition that crowd-funding isn't a replacement for marketing - it seems you have to work hard at it unless you already have a captive audience to tap into. You could crowd-fund Conception, but you don't need to!

One use for the perk/reward slots could be things tangential to the con itself - guests could offer scenarios/hacks/playbooks exclusively to backers, vanity rewards like naming rights can be popular with some, and you could even have slots for 'meet the guests' at pre/post con dinner etc. The key will be working out what crowd-funding would add above an early pre-booking system.

One factual note: it is Amazon Payments decision to only deposit to US bank accounts which limits who can use Kickstarter for crowd-funding. Why Amazon makes that limitation I don't know, though I expect there are reasonably good regulatory reasons behind it.

[Murgh Bpurn]

How would it attract GMs?
I'm sure lots of players would flock to the stretch goals, however how would you cater to the folk that run the games?

You've clearly not been party to one of my rants about there being no such thing as GMs and players at a table - just players with different responsibilities. Do GMs really need to be 'catered to'? Are we really back in the days when attendees at a convention need to be begged to run a game? If no-one runs, there is no con and no-one gets to play.

It doesn't matter what you call them, however if you don't have enough people to take the lead on a game it won't happen. Are you saying you would prefer not to have a con, rather than offer an incentive for people to take the lead on organising a game?

Edit: posted before continuing to read the rest of the thread, feel free to move to correct discussion.

[dpmcalister]

One factual note: it is Amazon Payments decision to only deposit to US bank accounts which limits who can use Kickstarter for crowd-funding. Why Amazon makes that limitation I don't know, though I expect there are reasonably good regulatory reasons behind it.

I read somewhere [1] that it was because of the US money laundering laws.

[1] It was on the internet so it must be true

[Magus]

How would it attract GMs?
I'm sure lots of players would flock to the stretch goals, however how would you cater to the folk that run the games?

You've clearly not been party to one of my rants about there being no such thing as GMs and players at a table - just players with different responsibilities. Do GMs really need to be 'catered to'? Are we really back in the days when attendees at a convention need to be begged to run a game? If no-one runs, there is no con and no-one gets to play.

Then there's a problem here that relates to what is your definition of a con- allow me to illustrate. London Indie RPG is funded almost entirely by me and the slightly more voluminous (and, strangely, less luxuriant) pockets of Indie Pete. We get the odd donation here and there (thanks, folks). Based on this model I have no problem with saying to people that it is not my responsibility to make sure games get run. The responsibility lies with the group. I'll certainly chip in and offer to run at least one game but other than that people have to "bring it." Thankfully they do and it's great to watch and I could say that I've provided a space for people to meet up and play these dirty hippy games and to playtest their own.

Next up is something like Concrete Cow. They appear to (and correct me if I'm wrong, Neil S.) hire out a community hall which is passed on to the punter at what seems an extremely reasonable rate and they book out a curry house for us to gorge ourselves at cost. Again, there is no onus on anyone to run anything - it just appears to work out.

I think if you want to go down an IndieGogo route you should be doing something much more upmarket than either of us. The problem arises with me parting with cash. In some ways don't I have some sort of right to receive entertainment? And can't I complain if it wasn't up to muster? For me this is more of a Dragonmeet model but then they let you in free if you GM. I was happy to run organise things as it was an opportunity to promote London Indie RPG.

The more cash you part with and the less you are able to see how your entry fee was spent the more you have a right to gripe about it. As an organiser I imagine you will need to delegate some of the 'entertainments' (for this read games) to others. Can't you incentivise people like Gaz and Scott Dorward to run stuff as they are top drawer IMHO? Can they benefit from this arrangement in some way?

And would this lead to the professionalisation of GM/facilitation/organsisational responsibility?

[Stronty Girl]

It all sounds a splendiferous idea. The thing that makes me twitchy is venue. If you've made your initial pledges and approached Hotel Aardvark to book the first weekend in January, then dumping them and rushing off to woo Hotel Behemoth may get you a bad rep in the hotel trade. Plus Hotel Behemoth may be all booked up in January, so you have to switch your con to February, and Hotel Aardvark may only charge £50 a night whereas Behemoth charges £100, so your pledgers get all disgruntled...

If you have a cluster of hotels in mind (like the main hotel and overflow hotels idea for science fiction cons like Eastercon), then it works well. Again subject to the overflow ones being available on the dates you want.